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Maga Christians (discuss.online)
submitted 3 days ago by VetOfTheSeas@discuss.online to c/atheism@lemmy.world
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[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

He did not invent his teachings Did he do some good? Sure He was constantly judging people.

You suddenly forget that none of it is (probably) real? It’s a legend character. Like robin hood.

It very much depends on which book you read by which author. Just like any other philosophical book

You could write a book about how robin hood was a nasty thief, but thats not really what the idea is about.

I'm wondering whether you have read the bible.

At least 5 that i remember that were distinct interpretations. Only one that was actually good though but really like, one of the best books on moral philosophy i have ever read. And all those things you are so sure are a part of if weren’t in it.

There was also one where Jesus detested Jaweh and ridiculed his followers for worshipping a monster. But it’s a very unusual interpretation that the church doesn’t like talking about.

you must submit completely to him or he'll punish

Thats god, not Jesus. We very much agree the character of god is ridiculously bad.

Please never make the mistake of defending a death cult again.

I am not i am just countering your unreasonable bias.

I understand that in all likelihood your experience with religious folk is zealots, cause your examples of why Christianity is bad is very much what zealots want.

Its not your fault you havent had the chance of talking with good and kind religious people who do exists all over but may not even express they are religious to anyone at all.

I am not such person but i do know such people.

If you have an open mind and find yourself in a respectful conversation with a half decent priest they have no problem admitting that the bible is not to be taken literally.

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It’s a legend character. Like robin hood.

You're the one defending him. Whether he's real or not does not affect my criticisms of his character. It's also worth noting that people do think he is real, and kill and die in his name.

It very much depends on which book you read by which author. Just like any other philosophical book

You're not addressing my points.

You could write a book about how robin hood was a nasty thief, but thats not really what the idea is about.

But there is no one story about Jesus. The gospels disagree with each other. The common thread is that he's a delusional, narcissistic hypocrite who got people killed with his bad ideas.

one of the best books on moral philosophy i have ever read

Holy fucking shit. There are fictional stories with better morals than the bible.

And all those things you are so sure are a part of if weren’t in it.

In one out of five, and you think that makes the character good? What version are you describing?

Stop ignoring the glaring flaws, the foundation of superstition and abuse.

it’s a very unusual interpretation that the church doesn’t like talking about.

Then why bring it up? We're talking specificity about christ, the human sacrifice, as described in conflicting ways in the bible.

Thats god, not Jesus.

In the bible, Jesus is god.

John 10:

I and the Father are one.

John 14:

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.

Isaih 9:

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Phillipians 2:

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

I can acknowledge that some versions might lean more or less toward Jesus being god, and that the concept of the trinity was basically a retcon to avoid the heresy of worshipping multiple gods, but we can also acknowledge that many people believe Jesus is god. The south baptist churches I was forced to go to certainly preached that Jesus is god.

In your version, is Jesus still the son of god? Does he still have good things to say about him? Because that is still highly problematic, even if he's not claiming to be god himself.

We very much agree the character of god is ridiculously bad.

I'm glad for that, at least. It genuinely scares me when you say you think the bible is a worthwhile guide to morality.

I am not i am just countering your unreasonable bias.

It's not unreasonable. People all over the world are voting against all of our best interests because bible says so. It's a death cult. Does Jesus die on the cross in your version? Is that a good thing? Does your version include heaven? Belief in a happy afterlife devalues our real lives.

your examples of why Christianity is bad is very much what zealots want.

This is why I asked if you've read the bible. You don't seem to understand what it contains or how many people believe it.

Its not your fault you havent had the chance of talking with good and kind religious people who do exists all over but may not even express they are religious to anyone at all.

Good and kind people don't make shit up. Intellectually honest people don't accept claims without sufficient evidence.

If you have an open mind and find yourself in a respectful conversation with a half decent priest they have no problem admitting that the bible is not to be taken literally.

That doesn't help. And I think you would be surprised. A) decent people do not spend their lives telling deadly lies. B) MANY priests insist the bible is true and contains no contradictions, because it says so. C) what do we learn metaphorically from passages where god is handing down commands and laws about owning slaves and catering to rapists?

I am curious about your version of the bible. It sounds like a complete anomaly and not at all what people think of when they think of bibles, Jesus, or christ.

Christianity is a death cult and your tolerance of it could get people killed. This is why I care so much.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Edit: i am rather tired of this conversation but i so want to finnish this comment. I wrote most of it already, i just got to this part and want to start with it:

The south baptist churches

This provides a lot of context and i absolutely understand how you got your point of view. Protestant evangelical has always seemed very extreme and backwards to me. I am really sorry you were forced into this.

Most of my christian influence is catholic, (i am still not religious in case this wasnt clear) technically that means the pope is considered the highest authority to set disputes though in practice thats not always the case. The big important is that they say the teaching of jesus got passed with the apostles and the later church who is able to ammend and recontextualize scripture in order to clarify what the words actually mean, hence its not to be taken literally.

Protestants literally take scripture literally, i would lie if i am not somewhat biased that i expect such to end in zealot death cults.

Does not reflect all of Christianity though which trough out is my sole point

There are fictional stories with better morals than the bible.

I don’t know how many times i need to repeat this but the bible IS a fictional story.

I am not defending the people you describe, I am defending people who ARE religious and yet nothing like you describe. Because what you describe is a stereotype.

The bible i read that was good had a really generic name. “The life and tale of Jesus Christ” i no longer own it. I don’t know who wrote/published it sorry, its over a decade ago.

The interesting odd one is the gospel of Judas. I bring it up specifically because i want to point out that christianity is a philosophy much larger than the church with tons of diverse branches. People who ascribe to Christianity do not need to be aligned with the church, like my mother in law who detests the church but does actually believe heaven is real and prays in private.

Quoting scripture does nothing for me, you can interpret those words in so many ways they basically mean nothing.

A religious teacher i once knew would say you need to read it in context of the classical era, most of it is outdated and no longer applies, but a core of philosophy remains, even if the historical author was devout they may have verbatim copied a tale without understanding the message themselves.

Times are different know and so is religion, most people can read, pretending something is absolutely truth makes a lot more sense in context of one academic explaining moral philosophy to a illiterate masses.

I don’t agree with that, that thinking corrupts so fast with clerical authority in for example, the death cults you speak off, but they are not the whole, and where i live a (loud) minority.

I do not tolerate zealots, its facism with extra steps, i could reflect your own words back that your intolerance of religious expression will get people killed. Because they don’t differentiate decent people from bad people who misuse the same idea and name.

Anyway enough internet arguing for now, have a good day.

[–] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 0 points 3 days ago

Edit: i am rather tired of this conversation but i so want to finnish this comment. I wrote most of it already, i just got to this part and want to start with it:

Human lives are at stake.

This provides a lot of context and i absolutely understand how you got your point of view. Protestant evangelical has always seemed very extreme and backwards to me. I am really sorry you were forced into this.

Then PLEASE stop enabling it. It's worse than you think.

Most of my christian influence is catholic, (i am still not religious in case this wasnt clear) technically that means the pope is considered the highest authority to set disputes though in practice thats not always the case. The big important is that they say the teaching of jesus got passed with the apostles and the later church who is able to ammend and recontextualize scripture in order to clarify what the words actually mean, hence its not to be taken literally.

Oh? Let's see what the pope has to say about Jesus:

One cannot do so alone and “therefore the Christian Community must always seek the power of the Holy Spirit to confess Jesus, to say that He is God, that He is the Son of God”.

https://insidethevatican.com/popeswords/pope-at-mass-being-christian-means-accepting-jesus-even-to-the-cross/

Protestants literally take scripture literally, i would lie if i am not somewhat biased that i expect such to end in zealot death cults.

Christianity is a death cult, catholicism included.

Does not reflect all of Christianity though which trough out is my sole point

Yes, it literally does. Christ was a human sacrifice. Yahweh is a death god.

I don’t know how many times i need to repeat this but the bible IS a fictional story.

But one with horrible morals, and one people believe is true.

I am not defending the people you describe

Yes you are. You're pretending they're the exception when they're following the bible like most christians.

I am defending people who ARE religious and yet nothing like you describe. Because what you describe is a stereotype.

You keep missing the point: superstition is deadly. Quit being a selfish coward. Quit enabling violence.

The bible i read that was good had a really generic name. “The life and tale of Jesus Christ” i no longer own it. I don’t know who wrote/published it sorry, its over a decade ago.

The interesting odd one is the gospel of Judas. I bring it up specifically because i want to point out that christianity is a philosophy much larger than the church with tons of diverse branches.

None of that magically erases the gospels most people are familiar with.

People who ascribe to Christianity do not need to be aligned with the church, like my mother in law who detests the church but does actually believe heaven is real and prays in private.

As I said before, belief in a happy afterlife devalues our real lives. She, like every christian, is a death cultist.

Quoting scripture does nothing for me, you can interpret those words in so many ways they basically mean nothing.

It's why people believe Jesus is god. The bible says so. Stop ignoring this crucial flaw.

A religious teacher i once knew would say you need to read it in context of the classical era, most of it is outdated and no longer applies, but a core of philosophy remains, even if the historical author was devout they may have verbatim copied a tale without understanding the message themselves.

There is no historical context where slave rape and genocide are moral, especially if god is all-powerful.

Times are different know and so is religion, most people can read, pretending something is absolutely truth makes a lot more sense in context of one academic explaining moral philosophy to a illiterate masses.

No, it's selfish intellectual dishonesty. Truth does not change based on what we want. Pretending something is true is called lying, and it is killing people.

I don’t agree with that, that thinking corrupts so fast with clerical authority in for example, the death cults you speak off, but they are not the whole, and where i live a (loud) minority.

Christianity is a death cult. We're all better off without it. No one needs religion.

I do not tolerate zealots

You evidently do.

its facism with extra steps

Exactly. God is fascist. Christ is god. Christianity wants us all dead.

i could reflect your own words back that your intolerance of religious expression will get people killed.

But you'd be wrong. Examine the evidence.

Because they don’t differentiate decent people from bad people who misuse the same idea and name.

Decent people don't tell deadly lies.

Anyway enough internet arguing for now, have a good day.

Fuck you for enabling abuse. I hope you grow a spine and a brain some day, for the victims' sakes.