Want to wade into the snowy surf of the abyss? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid.
Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned so many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)
I heard somewhere that "there is no unitary self" can be a Buddhist teaching and TPOT draws on Western Buddhism. There is work to be done figuring out where they got their eclectic mix of techniques and terminology.
It's Hofstadter, isn't it? That's the author who I recognize most in these discussions, followed closely by Hermann Hesse.
Well, I think the Buddhist idea that the self is an illusion goes back 2500 years or more, but Douglas Richard Hofstadter might have introduced nerdy American sci-fi fans to the idea.
I have time to quote at you now. Ziz's thoughts about dual-core brains sound like the thought experiments from "I" is a Strange Loop. In Chapter 15, "Entwinement", Hofstadter introduces the Twinwirld thought experiment: imagine a world where almost everybody is an identical twin, each pair of twins is given one name, twins go everywhere together, and identity is oriented around pairs instead of individuals. Quoting p215 from my copy:
The entire section is written like this. I've read a bit of the Zizian lore and it sounds like it was lifted straight out of this chapter with words replaced. p216 in particular really shows off the Hofstadter tendency towards neopronouns:
I don't really know about Vassar's writing. I do think that jailbreaking is somewhat related. I think that Hofstadter lays out their entire thesis in the first paragraph of Chapter 18, "The Blurry Glow of Human Identity", p259:
The second paragraph, right after that, might as well be quoted from LW. Check it out:
Buddhism's not part of the book. It is part of the roots of IFS, though! So I think that you'd be better served looking at IFS or the ways that people quote Hesse if you want to find those Buddhist influences.
Hofstadter and Hesse seem to be namechecked on LW much more often than Leo Strauss. I wonder if Scott Alexander talks about Strauss over coffee if he trusts you, because so much of what our friends do is supposed to fool the vulgar masses while the wise smile and know the hidden truth.
I wonder if the real secret to Vassar's influence is that he influenced the leaders of Bay Area LW like Alexander, Anissimov, Constantin, Zvi Moshowitz, and Salamon.
Thanks! I don't get the impression that Michael Vassar posts or publishes a lot under his own name, he seems to prefer cornering susceptible people at events and then having private conversations and correspondence with the ones who respond in a promising way. The clearest description of his jailbreaking which I have read is by Scott Alexander in a back and forth with Jessica Taylor (and we know Scott Alexander tries to hide some of the beliefs he cares the most about).
In a LessWrong thread people just point to a deleted Twitter account and some YouTube videos by Vassar.
RationalWiki briefly mentions earlier woo abut brain hemispheres.
Seeing it extracted from context and called out like this helps me understand why I've bounced off Hofstadter multiple times over the years, despite his hype. It's an artistic choice, sure, but 400 pages of this stuff without a break can be like beating your face against a brick wall after a while.