the people fearing the government is tyranny
the government fearing the people is liberty
this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2026
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Instead of always having a portion of the population always living in fear, we should just stop doing states and manage things ourselves
Bad people will always find a way to take control over the state, that and their ecodical nature makes them unstable in the long run
How do you handle disputes?
You talk with the other person and come to an understanding. Or both of you agree to ask another member of the community to arbitrate. Or you bring it up at the next community meeting. There are several ways to end a dispute that doesn't require a government.
And if the other person/party does not agree to settle things peacefully/diplomatically?
How would you want it to be handled if that happened?
That's why you bring it up to the community, so it can be addressed collectively. The guiding principle being An Injury to One is an Injury to All
Sounds an awful lot like a state...
No? A collective isn't hierarchical, a state is. Profoundly different institutional structures.
You don't know what a state is then.
Enlightened us please.
State, noun: 4a. a body of persons constituting a special class in a society
Asking the entire community to address a situation is not a special class
What does the "4a" part signify?
There are several dictionary definitions of the word "state". This is the definition I'm using.
There's other definitions?
... Yes. Do I really need to state the potential states of the word state for you?
It'd be nice if you didn't cherry pick the exact one that fits your argument, when there's very obviously other definitions that support the person you're arguing with. So yes, I guess I do need that.
I didn't cherry pick anything. I used the word as defined in the dictionary. When you use a word that has multiple different definitions, you select a definition for that usage. That's how language works.
A scientist talking about states of matter doesn't use every possible definition, nor do they cherry pick a definition. They use 1 of multiple definitions.
I didn’t cherry pick anything. I used the word as defined in the dictionary.
So you picked the exact version of the definition which supports you argument, in favor of the more appropriate definitions which are right there for you to see, which don't support your argument. But you're not cherry picking. If I ask you how that's not literally cherry picking will you respond with
Noun 2a cherry picking: the act of harvesting cherries from a cherry orchard
There are 8 definitions of the noun and 2 definitions of the verb.
In the sentence "abolish the state", which definition is best? I would posit 4a fits best. That is how I use the word in a political context. Based on context clues, you assumed I was using the more broad 5a.
Just because you're operating under a different assumption doesn't make it cherry picking
What if I hate talking? Can I get someone else to do it for me?
The constitution is just words on a paper without the threat of the people to back it up. It's up to all of us to keep the rights we can defend.
Are you implying i don't have to be a wizard to cast a fireball?
Live your dreams.
The social contract goes both ways. It's the duty of the state to protect and serve the citizens and it's the duty of the citizens to ensure the state is doing so. Noblesse oblige, to be noble one must oblige or put simply power ought to be given to those who serve the people and taken from those who do not.
V for Vendetta - Governments Should Be Afraid Of The People
TLDW: skip to 2:00, but don't, context is good.
Okay... if we consider those societies with the least worst human rights situations, would those really correspond to the ones where "the state" fears some imminent uprising? On the contrary, these are all stable democracies with relatively high confidence in institutions.
Imagine a mental framework where you are only happy when they fear you. If this is how people actually think we are cooked.
It's about the power dynamic and how it informs the relationship between the electorate and elected (or, for that matter, other hierarchical structures.) The theory is that policymakers treat people better if there are real consequences for not doing so, such as losing their elected seat. (Or more...extreme consequences.)
Another version of this would be a manager giving their unionized employees a raise because of the threat of a strike. Whether you frame it as fearing the employees or frame it as cold logic, the dynamic between a union and their boss is fundamentally different than between a single employee and their boss.
Oh I get all that, but it is boiled down to a power dynamic over fear which really isn't representative of what is going on. This adversarial view of the world probably prevents people from actual working together towards solutions. This is what I mean by cooked
Your example of a private enterprise and a union does not jive well with a government that is run by fellow citizens with the goal of serving their community.
Considering a lot of the anti-government propaganda comes private enterprise kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. One of the biggest issues we face is regulatory capture. Business likes to control the government and then blame them for the problems they are creating.
Fear is simply the wrong way to frame this and I believe supports a bunch of unhealthy thinking that is counterproductive to solving our problems.